Accused of Being a Spendthrift
Posted on February 10, 2009 by Him and tagged frugal, spending
This past weekend Trent at the The Simple Dollar, one of my favorite blogs, wrote a provocative narrative of how a media interviewer viewed him as a cheapskate and he wouldn’t think of him as a fun person to hang out with because of his frugality. After assuring his audience that he wasn't a cheapskate, he states that the issue is all about first-impressions, most importantly the immediate assumption that making frugal choices is a negative, or the belief that not spending money and buying products will bring you sadness and ugliness and social failure and career failure.
I'd like to explore the other side of his experience. If you've been a regular reader of our blog, you're familiar with the flippant attitude we have towards our financial situation and money in general. We're not hardcore frugality enthusiasts, we don't write about saving money, and we don't write about how awesome we are because we save for our purchases. For having this stance, we have been vilified, mocked, admonished, and ostracized. Spending money, wanting things, or even having things will not bring doom, destruction, blight, and locusts.
For us, frugality is a tool that we use in order to help us get what we want in life. While we recognize the necessity of money management skills, we're more of the type to enjoy nice restaurants, go to an art opening, or buy a goofy little trinket for ourselves or each other just to see even a fleeting smile. Frugality is simply a means to an end, not a lifestyle that we feel the need to fully embrace. What bothers me is the almost religious belief that frugality, above anything else, is the key to happiness and success. To spend money is a part of life, not an evil act that must be repented.
What bothers me the most is the incredible amount of self-righteousness found on personal finance blogs. I often see statements on the order of, "Well I saved for the things that I bought, and everyone else just caused the financial meltdown so I'm so much better than you nyahh nyahh," and it makes me GAG. It is that pretentious frugality that is not fun to be around. No one wants to be around perpetual Debbie Downers and have to restrict their fun.
To me, it seems that frugalists don't take kindly to hedonism on any level. It is of my observation that a large portion of money-savers are "fun-haters" who frown upon spending cash in order to get any type of happiness. In fact, oftentimes I read statements from frugalists that invalidate others' feelings of happiness only because of the existence of their debt. Just as some of my most fun times have been when I haven't spent money, I have a whole bunch of other memories that I wouldn't have had if I didn't spend any money. Our having debt doesn't mean that we don't deserve to feel happy, whether it is money-fueled or not.
Much is said on personal finance blogs on "needs" versus "wants". To many, it seems that self-flagellation in the form of seemingly indefinitely delayed gratification is the only true key to happiness. To have too many wants is a Very Bad Thing. I disagree - having wants is what life is all about. Let's face it, all one really NEEDS is a home to live in, some food to eat, some clothes to wear, and a pot to piss in. But for the majority of the frugalists, there is a belief that having too many wants will lead to ruin.
I don't disagree that spending money frivolously is a bad thing when done too much. And yes, having too much debt is a bad thing. The tenets of personal finance are true for everyone. But when debts are paid, retirement is funded, and savings are growing, then who cares what disposable income is spent on? Or should income NEVER be disposable?
Trent gave the example of how a person who is driving a run-down vehicle can be a millionaire. Conversely, why can't a person who drives a BMW be financially responsible? What if that person saved up for his car? Just because he owns a luxury vehicle he is automatically thought to kick puppies? That guy could possibly be in better financial shape than most.
So before you assume that the Starbucks-drinking, Banana Republic-wearing, Mercedes-driving person is up to his eyeballs in debt, he may think that you're a total bore. First impressions work both ways.
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Amen! While I know I'm not the best at either frugality or rabid consumerism, I like to think that I have a pretty balanced outlook on my financial life. I want to save so that I can have a wedding, buy a nice house, and upgrade my vehicle (maybe even own a brand-new one for the first time ever), but I still want to go skiing, to the movies, out to dinner, and otherwise enjoy myself. It's about being responsible and aware of your financial situation.
As my mom always says, "Everything in moderation." Same goes for PF. Too far in either direction will make for misery.
Kenny johnson | Feb 10, 2009
Nice post.
I'm not really frugal. And I don't really want to be. I just want to be responsible with my finances. I think there's a difference.
I enjoy going out to eat, for instance. I can be frugal and make all my meals at home. Or I can be financially responsible and budget for restaurant dining. I'd prefer the latter.
I've been a long time reader, but don't know that I've commented before. But, I really appreciated this post. This is why I continue to read your blog.
I believe that frugality is one of those words that everyone defines differently. This makes it confusing, because frugal to one is miserly or excessive to others.
I don't feel bad when I spend money. However, I have learned to think about what I'm spending and why. To me, this is frugality. Wants aren't evil. I have lots of wants.
But, I found that once I started conciously thinking about what I was buying, I spent less. Now, I'm working to purchase things I love, instead of things that will be at Goodwill in 6 months. That's frugal to me... it's a journey rather than a destination. And, I find it can be pretty dang fun.
I think the key is spending consciously, with thought. If something is important to you, if it makes you happy, spend on it, but make sure you know what those starbucks cost you. It is worth it to some people, and not worth it to others. Who is to judge?
I'm frugal in many areas because I'd really rather spend my money on other stuff.
Personal finance is about spending your money where it matters most, on the things you love, the things that you enjoy. It's about making choices to continually move closer to the life you want to live. Everyone will have a different version of what that means.
I'll refrain from commenting on the financial meltdown so as not to go off about personal responsibility. :)
ldub | Feb 10, 2009
hear, hear! thanks for posting this... i have to be able to remind myself that the overall goal is getting out of debt, but not every action needs to be pointed at that one goal. i also hope to have fun, live life, do silly things, wear pretty things, and buy cool books for my fella. it won't make my journey out of debt faster, no, but it'll make it far, far less miserable!
Melanie | Feb 10, 2009
Thank you so much for this!! I stopped reading a lot of PF blogs a few months ago because every day, I'd make it through my Google reader and end up feeling bad about myself. I'm a graduate student with limited income and I'm doing the best I can right now, especially as a single person. Instead of feeling inspired, I seemed to always feel discouraged and defeated.
I really love this blog and also reading your articles on MoneyMix!
Ariella | Feb 10, 2009
Totally agree. I went over to The Simple Dollar to read the comments on Trent's post. Ugh - so much self-satisfaction and self-congratulation. I guess when you deprive yourself that much, you need something to get yourself through the night.
I am much more of a moderation person, myself. I know that I am lucky because I have a graduate degree, make good money and am married to someone who also makes good money. We were both fortunate not to make mistakes and get into debt while in school.
But I don't congratulate myself on what is essentially the luck of the draw, and while we're conscientious about our spending, we're not exactly frugal. And I'm OK with that - we save, we fund our retirement accounts, AND we go on vacation and out to dinner. It's not a zero-sum game folks, and you can't take it with you. Experiences are what last a lifetime.
Walden | Feb 10, 2009
hmm, I have to say this post rubs me the wrong way just a little. Yes, there are lots of holier-than-thou personal finance blogs out there, but there are also an equal number of people whining about not having enough money who have been irresponsible. I do agree that having wants is not bad, but having too many wants (or worse, confusing wants with needs) does need to be addressed - if you can't afford everything you want. If you can, go for it. But if you can't, and you buy it anyways and then come whining to me, I am going to feel a little smug.
And, (this is not a dig in any way, just an observation) didn't a relative of yours make a very generous donation to your student loans? How much worse off would you be with out that gift? I bet you're very grateful that person took their frugality seriously...
Great post! I like your line about the BMW a lot, and Ariella is right about the amount of self-satisfaction in those comments (although a lot of commenters on the high-traffic moneyblogs are a whole lot more zealous & less engaging than the bloggers).
Like you, I'm one half of a well-paid dinky urbanite couple and we do the expensive restaurants and travel a lot and so forth too, as do our friends and families. But we're what I'd call reasonably frugal in many areas - I work too hard for my money to waste it on utilities or a second car or premium cable or whatever. For us moneyblog addicts there's a place for some frugality bloggers in our reading, I think.
I guess it's all relative ... from reading your blog, I feel like you guys are the ultimate in frugal! I think you wrote once that you give yourselves $100 a month for fun money ... that's not a budget we could stick to!
tina | Feb 11, 2009
I enjoy the Simple Dollar and I think Trent is very happy with his life, he has realized what things are important to him and that is the way he leads his life. What could be wrong with that?
I don't agree with all pf blogs, many would not agree with my decision to help my sons with college. This is a personal decision for me that fits in my life, I make sacrifices in other areas so I can do this.
I think I am frugal, i don't spend on a whim and when I do spend, I give my purchases a lot of thought to make sure they fit in with the way I live my life and my beliefs. I am not cheap by any means and my family enjoys life and has a lot of fun together.
Watching what I spend has made me realize what and who are important in my life. I enjoy pf blogs for the encouragement and advice, I don't always agree with all of it but I wouldn't expect to.
I enjoy your blog!!
tina
I love reading your blog and Trent’s. And I don’t think the underlying philosophies are all that different. The Simple Dollar is all about figuring out what’s important to YOU (or me, or whoever). He discusses how he tailors his spending to things that are important to him rather than wasting money on things that really aren’t in line with his values. This is going to look different for each individual. I relate to him because he talks a lot about splurging on food/wine/things for the kitchen. That’s what I like to spend on, too. I cut back on other things to make that spending possible without debt.
My husband, on the other hand, LOVES games. He has all three of the latest consoles (and a spare xbox 360 to boot). He buys a lot of games, too. Even though it’s not MY interest, I respect that he gets enjoyment from it. He cuts back on other stuff and plans for this spending so why not? He’s not “bad” for loving his material stuff and I’ve never gotten that vibe from Trent, either. I don’t understand why people are threatened by others’ choices. If it’s something I wouldn’t do (like Trent’s famous homemade laundry detergent), I don’t get up in arms thinking he’s criticizing me for not doing it. I just think, “that’s interesting but not applicable” and move on. I think there’s lots to gain from seeing what others do, even if it’s not 100% applicable.
I also related to the idea of assumptions. To look at some of the “stuff” we have, you might think we have a lot of money. Or, you could look at my aging car and think we’re kind of cheap. But it’s all about choices. My husband loves electronics, I love food. Neither of us value how cool our car is. So that’s how it breaks down for us.
So much food for thought. Thanks for the great post!
Pev | Feb 12, 2009
Dude I have to agree with Healthy Amelia, I read your blogs pretty often and really like what you write cuz it's realistic and easy reading. Anyway, I'm a new blogger and interested in traveling and thinking of just blogging about that. If you have any tips for me, I that would totally appreciate it.
I think there's a good balance between hedonism and cheapskate. Most of us -- even PF bloggers -- are trying to find that median.
I am a little too self-denying a lot of the time. My husband has ADD (which comes with some impulse control issues) and so he sometimes isn't self-denying enough. Over the last three years, we've been good influences on each other. He encourages me to get myself small treats. I encourage him to think through purchases more -- and to remember that small things add up fast.
We would love to get to a point where frugality wasn't so much a survival need as a choice. (We both have chronic health issues and so are paying down debt on about $3,000/month.) We'd love to be able to indulge ourselves a little more.
I think the thing about frugality is that it helps you really enjoy your life. You tend to appreciate the things you buy more, and you can worry about money less, once you have an emergency fund.
Love you blog! I completely agree with you. I do have to comment about the whole first impressions thing. Have you read "Millionaire Next Door"? From that book's perspective, most people who "appear" rich, aren't. Just a fact, I think.
We're frugal, but not religious about it.
We've been paying off debt and we don't have credit cards - but I don't judge people that have some debt or some credit cards.
Life is a personal choice and you have to do what you can to enjoy it.
Me? I get a kick out of squirreling away money - but when I found out my friend was laid off last week - drinks were on me!
You have to have priorities.
Plus, we're all in this together with the same basic needs. Shelter, food, not getting hit by a bus.
I don't know that anyone should turn their first-impression of someone else into a full-on judgement-assumption fest. Banana Republic *or* Kmart.
Timothy | Feb 22, 2009
I encourage him to think through purchases more -- and to remember that small things add up fast.
I wish my GF would read this site. She is always accusing me of being a cheapskate.
Nothing compared to all you cheapo's. And I mean that in the nicest possible way.
I admitted to not being frugal. I'm tired of it. A reader said you aren't very frugal so I said, no i'm not.
http://www.livingalmostlarge.com/2009/02/20/im-not-frugal/
There are many ways to live. Many ways to enjoy life, to spend money, to make money. You can embrace frugality to any degree and to any purpose - the choice is up to you, and there's not necessarily a right or wrong way; your relationship with money will be your own personal experience.
I used to be frugal as a means to an end, in other words, to live on a low income and as a student without going deep in debt. Then it became a way of saving to achieve real wealth and the ability to be financially independent and free to afford the things I really wanted in life.
Now, frugality has become about mindfulness. A way of thinking and engaging with all the resources around me. It's a way to harness creative energy, learn new skills, feel gratitude for what I have, and appreciate what is really important to me.
In all these discussions, we have to remember that frugality is not a religion, it is an experience, a practice that may have many different meanings.
Steven@hundredgoals.com | Mar 12, 2009
I practice frugality because it is a means to an end and is a lifestyle which is in tune with my personal value of reducing waste. The end is debt elimination and reducing the overall amount of waste which I produce means deciding what is a need and what is a want. I spend lots of money and have a good time doing it, I just try to prioritize differently and consider my purchases in a different way than many people. I don't claim to be holier than thou, it is just how I live my life and what works for me.
I read TSD every day, and there are many things that wouldn't make sense for me, but there are a lot of great ideas for people who are struggling with debt or who are looking for ways of cutting their budgets even further.
Stephanie | Jun 2, 2009
I stopped reading The Simple Dollar blog because I felt so tired after reading it! I personally don't care for his style of writing, and he doesn't make frugality sound the least bit interesting or fun. I prefer a more tongue-in-cheek style of writing, I guess. I'm with the other people that quite reading some pf blogs that made them feel bad about themselves.
Johanna | Jan 28, 2010
Well, I stopped reading the Simple Dollar because of a few reactionary anti-immigrant comments he made in some posts a few years back, but anyway...
I like your post because I feel that among frugality bloggers there is often this feeling that we should all be wearing any clothes we can find thrifted or free or just that we've had for ages, never mind if they are hideous or embarrassingly dated, just because it's cheaper to do so. Never mind actually being interested in style--heavens, no!
Being interested in fashion doesn't automatically mean you're vapid & spend all your money on clothing. Indeed, it doesn't even mean you buy expensive or even moderately priced clothing--I've seen some awesome fashion bloggers who post amazing thrifted outfits. But a lot of frugality bloggers act like caring at all what you look like is a sin. Yawn!
I agree with you. So many of the personal finance blogs I read seem...very full of themselves. They claim they don't care what other people do, but go on and on about how little they spend like they're the next best thing to Jesus. It's a little off putting. I believe in saving money. I do save money. I have never used loans to pay for anything, rather I saved my money and paid in cash. I don't need a lot of things, but what things I do have I want to be nice, quality things. I don't want everything I own to be from the second hand store. I don't need a brand new car with all of the bells and whistles, but sometimes they make me feel like I'm going to money management hell for wanting a car with air conditioning that is less than twenty years old. As long as I'm not in debt and I am putting money away, what does it matter if I want some nicer things in life? The whole point of saving money is to buy something. Right? I don't want to die with a million dollars in my savings account, but I don't want to die and leave my family in debt, either.
Amber | Feb 10, 2009
That is exactly the reason that I stopped reading The Simple Dollar. The straw that broke the camel's back was a post (this was long ago) that insinuated that Trent's friends use too much toilet paper. Feeling holier-than-thou because you can get by with 2 squares rather than 4 was just a little too much for me.
Also, this post is a great example of why I love your blog. I don't read it and then feel bad for buying a full priced shirt at Banana Republic that I could afford rather than buying a shirt at Target just because it was cheaper.
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