Give Us Advice On How To Help Her Out With My Mom
Posted on February 06, 2008 by Him and tagged advice, parents, poll
Another day, another post about dealing with my mom.
While my mom's antics are quite bearable for me, it is mainly because I've been dealing with her all of my life. Her, on the other hand, has only had a few years of experience with directly dealing with my mom. Her has been great about doing stuff with my mom and respecting my mom's cultural wishes.
There are times, though, when my mom gets a little out of hand, especially with questions dealing with finances. When Her and I are together, I can easily deflect direct questions about finances; my mom has no qualms about asking anything from me directly. But what should Her do when my mom asks her a financial question and I'm not there?
Here's a recent example: Her and my mom went to a wedding shower of another close family friend. Of course since we've been planning our wedding for, uh, forever, my mom turned some of the guests' attention to that topic. My mom and her friends were asking Her direct questions such as, "How much did _______ cost?" Her understandably felt uncomfortable and ended up divulging the information to them. Hey, a bunch of feisty Asian women can be terribly intimidating...you know...all the ninja stuff and everything.
So, dear readers, we ask for your advice:
When asked by my mom a direct finance-related question and I'm not around, how should Her handle it?
Is my mom out of line?
How should I give my mom a karate-chop to have her stop putting Her in uncomfortable positions like that?
Comments/Trackbacks
Trackback URL: http://www.makelovenotdebt.com/MT/mlnd-trackbacks.cgi/1226
My wife and I had a very large and very loud fight very early in our marrige due to the fact that she actually went and borrowed money from her parents when she was worried about money one month. She wasn't worried that we wouldn't have any, but was worried about some catastrophic scenario she conjured in her head to do as she desired.
After that I made it quite clear that with regard to money, relationship issues, sex, or anything else we are to close ranks and present a united front to the world. She realized this then and if she hadn't we would have been quickly on the way to divorce court.
There is no way I am going to spend time dealing with a third party about issues that only a first party should know.
I would address it twofold. First I would deflect as you do and hope they take the hint. If they didn't I would hit them back with some personal questions that reflect the same sort of prying ignorance disguising rude behavior.
Her could ask how many times a week your mother and father have sex so she can anticipate future sex drive. She can ask how many dress sizes everyone has gained so she can anticipate future budgetary needs for new clothing. Her could ask how many dollars they think disappear on beer and possibly prostitutes.
Or... your mother could get a clue and stop being rude. Golden rule, it works both ways.
Millionaire Neumes | Feb 6, 2008
Since Her sounds like a very considerate soul, help her to stay true to herself.
Since it is your mom doing the prying, it is your place to put your foot down and protect your future wife. Let your mother know from you only in no uncertain terms that although Her cares about her, the prying questions will from now one get the following reply_________ (fill in the blank with the sentence of your choice.)
You arm Her with polite, clear prepackaged ammo so she can try to relax in your mother's company. She will no longer have to be on emotional guard. Make it clear to your mom that the phrase comes from you, not Her, so if your Mother has an issue she knows she is angering her son, not her future DIL.
MVP | Feb 6, 2008
If it were me, so as not to make waves, I'd say something to the effect of, "Oh, I'm really not sure. I'll have to ask Him, he took care of most of that. He's such a great fiance..." That makes it sound like Her is going to make a great wife, giving respect to her fiance, whom they both adore. But I wouldn't, under any circumstances, be bullied into giving out personal information to people who have the potential to use it against you in the future. I'd find a way to kindly change the subject, even if it's obvious you're doing so. That way, you don't set up a precedent of spilling your guts every time they ask. They'll eventually realize you're a vault and get tired of asking. But these situations and relationships often are very delicate, so tread lightly. And possibly read the book Boundaries. I've heard Dave Ramsey recommend it for these situations.
Okay I get your point Nick - that MIL is being rude and she you should counter with being rude back. Did you ever learn that two wrongs don't make a right, though? By responding with the responses you suggested, Her would be drastically elevating the level of animosity and would most likely ruin the relationship with Him's mother. You have to be kidding. There's a difference between standing your ground and blatantly escalating the level of rudeness in an inappropriate manner. I also find it very telling that you would divorce your wife for asking her parents for a loan.
To Him: Your mother is out of line though, and as her son, it is your responsibility to fix this to protect your wife and take the pressure off Her. I totally agree with the advice provided by Millionaire Neumes. Decide with your wife ahead of time how she would be comfortable answering the question - I would suggest something along the lines of, "I appreciate your interest in our wedding plans but I do feel that is a rather personal question and I'd prefer not to answer it." Polite and straightforward. If she persists, something pointed like "I'm sorry but that's between my husband and I" or "I'm sorry but I've already told you I'm not comfortable answering that" would be an appropriate response from Her.
Nick | Feb 6, 2008 | Reply to Miss Squirrel
I don't think you do get my point. If you did you wouldn't have made the ridiculous claims and assumptions that were evident in your comment to me. I never said I would divorce my wife. I said we would have ended up in divorce court. Any couple that continues to cleave to their parents and not to each other is not bound for success. That is a simply statement of fact and not a threat from one party to another.
Him has addressed his mother acting this way several times. It is clear she is using good intentions to act rude. A simple reminder won't solve it in my view because as an older woman she clearly understands what she is doing and why she is doing it. A little push back never hurt anyone. Would you rather this thing continue to fester for several years until it becomes something large or just show you aren't going to be pushed around with a few snarky comments?
Both of my in-laws LOVE to dish it out. Realizing you aren't a wimp and can give a little back can actually be endearing. Clearly MIL loves using traditions, expectations and social situations to be a bit manipulative. If she got a bit of it back, she would probably actually gain some mutual respect rather than be hurt. Humans are weird that way.
Now go work on that non-choir sex!
Dawn | Feb 6, 2008
I think He should talk privately with his mom and say that in Her's family, they don't talk about finances and it makes her uncomfortable when she is asked those questions in public. Make it about a difference in culture or family practices rather than about her personally. Tell her that Her doesn't want to be rude or hurt your mom, so she hasn't said anything about it before.
I lived in China for several years and culturally it was acceptable for friends (and strangers) to ask, "How much do you make?" or "How much did that sweater cost?" My own strategy was to lie so it sounded like I got a good deal. I don't know how that would work in this situation. Those questions always made me uncomfortable, because we just don't do that in the US. I sympathize with Her!
Sit down with Her and concoct elaborate adventures about planning your wedding. When asked a financial question about the wedding, she can then simply recite the story about that particular part of the wedding planning. Problem solved!
For example, if asked "How much did you spend of flowers?"
Well, Him and I shopped around at a couple of florists in Chiacago, but we really weren't floored by any of the arrangements we saw. Then we did a bit of research online and found out about the rare LILY OF THE TUNDRA! It blooms once every 13 years in the frigid Steppe of Northern Russia, so we took an impromptu flight there to see it for ourselves. Oh, it was beautiful, I knew right then and there that if our love was true, we would have nothing but Lillies of the Tundra at our wedding, so we paid to have the entire species of plant obliterated, freeze-dried, shellacked, and airmailed to Chicago. All-in-all, we spent about $119,328 on them, including airfare.
Catherine | Feb 6, 2008
Depending on the situation, I'd probably either go the "oh, I don't remember off the top of my head" route or the "it's none of your G.D. Business" route. Depending on my mood.
Your mother is definitely out of line.
And I'm thinking an actual ninja chop may be in order. :-P
Camercad | Feb 6, 2008
I am a new commenter, but have been enjoyed reading the blog for a few months now. My comment is to ask Him and Her why finances are a taboo subject with Him's family. Personally, I wouldn't have a problem talking about wedding item costs, especially when I was in the wedding planning phase. Who knows? Someone could have pointed Her to a better deal.
Becky | Feb 6, 2008
Oh, and for the two other questions:
2- Yes, your mom is out of line
3- I've always liked the Jackie Chan way of doing things. I vote for the "Jackie Chan karate-chop"
;)
Gwen | Feb 6, 2008
I think it's a mother's way of doing things. Maybe, in regards to the wedding, she's really wanting to be more involved, espcially since it's your mother?
On the other hand, she is being nosy. However, my parents didn't have a lot of money when we were growing up, but now they do and my mom is way more liberal with it then I think she should, espcially how she says she hates working and wants to retire. I'm not sure of your childhood inner financials, though.
All in all, though, I think it's who your mother is and nothing you say will change it (I've tried with mine. It doesn't work). I don't think Her answering I'm uncofortable with answering that will work, as mother seems to be persister. I think she wants to know so she can nag you about giving her more money, really.
As for Her, maybe she could go with why you chose something and then leave it at that.
sarah | Feb 6, 2008
I've found that responding to a rude question with "Why do you ask?" often causes the person who posed the question to pause for a moment, perhaps realizing that they've asked an inappropriate question.
Ariella | Feb 6, 2008 | Reply to sarah
Excellent point, Sarah. I've used this tactic several times. It only works on people who are self-reflective enough to realize why you're asking a rebound question, though.
I think while the MIL was nosy and out of line, it's who she is. Personally, I think I would take the "Oh, I don't remember exactly" and then give a ballpark figure. That way, like someone commented earlier, she's seen as being accomodating to her MIL but at the same time, not divulging too much about the financial situation...
Dogatemyfinances | Feb 6, 2008
I would either play dumb (don't remember) or wildly exaggerate so that everything costs a bazillion dollars and the questions are no longer interesting. The key to the bazillion dollar answer is to keep it dead serious and repeat as needed.
You need to be the one to sit your mom down and make her realize what she is doing is wrong. It is rude and inconsiderate and none of her business! Be firm with your mom, and ask her to please refrain from asking personal questions to you or Her. She needs to understand neither of you owe her answers to these type of questions.
After having that talk, if either of you are ever put in that situation again, answer: "That's a personal question," and then smile politely. Hopefully your mom will get the point quickly, if you continue to remind her that she it's none of her business!
Sophia | Feb 6, 2008
oh i'd never dare talk straight to an asian elder that is not my parents.
maybe advise her to skirt around any questions and find an excuse to leave the room/ change the topic? that's what i'd do if i really didn't want to answer
Sophia | Feb 6, 2008
and i don't think it is particularly rude to ask the cost of anything in an asian context.
Ariella | Feb 6, 2008
Sorry Him, this sounds like rationalization on your part. She is your mother, and it is YOUR responsibility to set limits. Even though you've been "dealing" with her your entire life, that doesn't change the fact that her questions indicate that she has an issue with boundaries -- and that you have not set appropriate boundaries, either.
First and foremost, it would be advisable to tell your mother in no uncertain terms that questions about your joint finances are off limits. Then - stop answering those questions. If you answer them when Her is not around, you merely reinforce your mother's belief that it is appropriate to ask these types of questions.
These limits are different for everyone. Her obviously prefers not to divulge such information (for instance, it would not bother me to tell anyone how much we paid for anything in our wedding, our house, or my salary). One of your "jobs" as her husband is to understand her sensitivities to this issue and make your parents understand that you're firm in your commitment to Her.
I realize this sounds harsh, but one of the number one issues in a young marriage is competition between the wife and the mother-in-law. Even if it's not overt, it's still there, and one thing the husband (who is caught in the middle, understandably) can do is to set firm limits/boundaries, and let his wife know that he's on her "side."
My MIL is Asian, and I understand the cultural differences at play here - however, IMHO it is His responsibility to tell Mom when she's being over-the-line. If she asks overbearing questions about income, insurance, investments, or anything else that makes Her uncomfortable, it will only lead to difficulties for the couple. Time to set the limits now before it builds to something worse!
Jerry
www.leads4insurance.com
Gigi | Feb 7, 2008
When we were planning our wedding, many of our friends were in the same situation. My MIL would swap information with her other Greek friends. Let me tell you, feisty Asian women are no match for the Greek mothers. It's always a competition too.
Well when I was asked how much we paid or were paying for something, I would play dumb. "Oh I can't remember. We did it a while ago." If they persisted, then I would mention "It was around $xxx" and round up or down a few thousand depending on where I thought the information was going.
Look cheap was the worst to a Greek. They make fun of all the cheap people out there.
Emma | Feb 7, 2008
Yikes, lots of comments already.
Coming from a very similar situation, I choose to respond with, "I'm not comfortable discussing that here." It's assertive, it cuts them off, but in the right tone, it isn't rude. Or try "We aren't comfortable discussing that with others." I also like the advice of playing dumb, "Um, we'll have to ask HIM, I'm not sure." Or, my mother would suggest, "why do you want to know that?" "Our flowers were 10% of the budget". That's vague enough to give them info without telling them your budget. It's important to try to show mom that its inappropriate to ask those questions, because it sounds like she doesn't know better. But use caution in how you tell her. Hurting her feelings will make everything awkward until you smooth it over again.
jj | Feb 7, 2008
I'm sorry, but I would be livid, if my fiance continued to let his mother bully me like that. I have been reading your blog for over a year now, and every post about your mother indicates that she is pushy, manipulative, passive aggressive and downright rude. It always seems like your mother guilts you into spending money, telling her about your finances and making sure that you spend money on her.
I can't believe the advice that some people are giving, as far as having Her lie and say she doesn't know anything about the finances and she better ask you. A) That's demeaning and sexist and Her shouldn't have to put herself down like that and B) that implies that it is ok for her mother to be asking this question in the first place.
I know it seems like I'm being harsh, but one my good friends is in the same position with her rude and pushy mother-in-law and her husband keeps telling her to "ignore it" and "that's just how she is". Every time he does it, it sends the message that pandering to his mother to keep her happy is more important that correcting the behavior to keep his wife happy. His mother's feelings come first. It is wrecking their marriage.
MVP | Feb 7, 2008 | Reply to jj
@ jj - C'mon, sexist?! Get real. As I said, and as anyone who's married knows, these relationships are delicate and those involved need to tread lightly so as not to destroy family relationships for years to come. My response was in no way sexist or demeaning, it was simply diplomatic. As another commenter said, there's no way anything's likely to change Him's mother. Starting a war with a difficult person isn't going to solve anything. Him's mother didn't murder or molest anyone. THAT would be reason to start a war. Keep it in perspective.
Phil | Feb 7, 2008
One possibility could be to show your mom this post and all the comments you've received. Not only would she see many different viewpoints on the subject, but she would also see that this is upsetting you and Her so much that you felt the need to ask for advice on how to handle this situation.
This might be a bit of "tough love", and make your mom upset. I'm guessing, though, that she'll eventually understand where you're coming from and become less intrusive in your financial lives. And after all, you are her son, and she does love you, and you love her.
(I apologize in advance if this sounds harsh and that I've jumped to some conclusions about the situation or Mom's behavior.) Many of the commenters are missing the point. Him's mother will never see anything wrong with asking about Their finances (or, I'm sure, other personal info), no matter how much information she gets, how many times she's told it's none of her business, or that it makes Her uncomfortable.
Mom's behavior has a very strong cultural foundation which is backed up by her peers/friends/relatives. On top of that, even if you told her exactly how much everything cost all the time, she would still be unhappy about the amount or type of expense (ring, house, wedding, gifts, baby stuff, etc., etc.). She has no framework to understand how inappropriate her persistent questions are in Western culture generally or towards Them specifically.
It just may not be possible to change this behavior. So it's up to Him and Her to agree on how to deal with Mrs. Him and the constant focus on money.
Ariella | Feb 7, 2008 | Reply to Dave M
Dave, allow me to respectfully disagree. Whether this is a cultural issue or not -- and I agree that it is -- for the sake of their relationship Him should set firm boundaries with his mother and let Her know about it. Maybe it will do nothing; maybe it will do something. One thing it will definitely do is allow both of them to know, at all times, where they stand on issues like discussing finances with relatives.
I am friends with MANY asian men who have this problem. Frankly, it is difficult to break out of the cycle. It would be a mistake not to set limits and at least try to break it.
MIL (and FIL) hell | Feb 7, 2008
I speak from experience, and hours & hours with a marriage counselor:
Practice these lines:
Mom, Her and my finances are between us.
Her, I'm so sorry my mom did that again. What can we do to respond to this?
Her, my mom asked me how much ________ cost, and I told her I'd have to talk to you - are you comfortable with my parents and all their friends having this information?
Her, where are your boundaries when it comes to financial information? Here are mine....
Whether or not mom's behavior has a strong cultural foundation, it's your and Her's job to find ways of dealing with this behavior. You can't change Mom, but you can change the way you respond to her.
I'd tell your mom that Her's family just doesn't discuss that kind of thing.
And then Her can be kind of "I'm not quite sure" and maybe your mom will understand.
Out of respect for my elders, I would never directly tell them if/when they were out of line. And out of respect for your mom, I wouldn't recommend HER do anything remotely of the kind. However, I will say this. She is YOUR mom and YOU need to handle that. Fix it so your future wife won't have to say or do something she'll live to regret.
First, let me preface this comment by saying that I have been with my husband for about 17 years now, almost 15 in marriage. While we were dating and when we were first married, the majority of our arguments were about something my MIL did or said. I realize now that her main issue was that she wanted to feel included. Sometimes I didn't feel that she should be included, and there was the conflict.
Now we've adopted a "pre-emptive" strike method, where we tell MIL and FIL whenever we make a big decision. We only tell them as much information as we are comfortable sharing, and then they know enough about our lives that we don't get interrogated.
It helps that we live about 2 hours away so that MIL cannot just pop in. Good luck with figuring out how to handle your situation!
Livingalmostlarge | Feb 10, 2008
Are we married? No seriously it happens all the time to me from my MIL.
It gets interesting. Best answer? Skirt the question.
Nosy MIL too | Feb 6, 2008
My MIL and SILs have a tendency to ask very direct $$ questions also. My SIL once made a comment about how difficult reaching a $10K savings goal would be for us (our goals were posted on the fridge). I simply tell them that we are working very hard to keep ourselves on track and sometimes have to give up other things. For how much something costs, unless I got a great deal-which I like to brag about :)- I tell them that it fit into our budget. If they persist, I give a range and change the subject onto something about the item other than the cost.
Reply to this comment