(Un)Happy Mother's Day
Posted on May 10, 2007 by Him and tagged culture, food, parents, relationship
Two days ago I wrote about the Asian cultural phenomenon of giving back to your parents. As I stated in that post, I don't mind giving back during special occasions in the form of nice meals at restaurants or nice presents. I don't mind because I feel like it should come from me, not because there is a cultural expectation or because my parents expect it.
My mother tends to take this notion the wrong way and as a result often puts us in uncomfortable financial situations. She feels (dare I say) entitled to receive her payback in the way that she chooses - and if she doesn't get it her way, she'll bulldoze us until she does. For example, she has no qualms about asking me how much my bonus was and asking for a portion of it (I declined on both questions). This trait of hers is definitely most apparent when it comes to eating out.
You see, in my family we tend to skimp on presents and place a large emphasis on food. We have a tradition of rallying and celebrating around food. Therefore, whenever there is a birthday or Mother's/Father's Day or whatever, we usually go out to eat.
In fact, the recent $300 meal at Fogo de Chao was my idea to celebrate my dad's birthday. My mom was very pleased at that place because she knew it was expensive, and even suggested we take her there for her birthday which was two weeks later! When her birthday came around, I asked her if we could do something less expensive because we were still reeling from the previous dinner. Needless to say, she was quite offended. We ended up going to a restaurant where the tab came out to $70 for the two of us.
About a year ago we went to P.F Chang's for my dad's birthday. (Yes I know it is barely Asian food but it was close to where we all work and it was easy on the pocketbook.) Of course we offered to pay. While my dad was fine with the choice of restaurant, my mom definitely felt like we were being cheap, and it showed. She made snarky comments about the low price of the menu items and kept talking about other, nice, and more expensive restaurants. We decided to dine family style, so I suggested that we all pick one item from the menu and then we'll all share. That apparently did not fly with my mom who then proceeded to order not one, not two, but THREE entrees. What was formerly a wallet friendly meal now ate up (pun somewhat intended) a large chunk of change.
Now let us fast forward to this upcoming mother's day. This mother's day, we decided to actually follow some advice floating around the personal finance blogosphere and instead of taking my mom out to a restaurant for mother's day brunch, we offered to drive to her house and cook her brunch. So far she is extremely lukewarm to the idea - mainly because we're not going to spend a lot of money on food for her.
We've already spend close to $400 on food for them in the past two months or so, and we definitely don't need to spend more. Don't get me wrong - I don't mind giving back, but not when it is on these terms.
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Wow. My only advice/recommendation is to stop this behavior now. I would set one occasion per year which would involve an expensive meal out and start celebrating other occasions in different ways. I love the idea of cooking her brunch! Special occasions should be about friends and family, not money.
Oh my. How cultures vary! In my family, the eldest generation present pays - and if there's a tie, they often fight over who will pay! As annoying as it is trying to treat my Grandfather to a meal or some sort of outing on a special occasion, I'd much rather have my problem than yours! It sounds like your mother might just be beyond reasoning with.
mandy | May 10, 2007
The recurring theme about your money is that it's your money. Being influenced to do things- by family requests, sense of style, etc.- with your own money is exactly what's going to keep you in debt. I'm really trying to help you understand that what you do is your choice- and that includes anything that ends up keeping you in debt.
Jessica | May 10, 2007
I really think you need to sit down with your mother and explain your financial situation. Tell her in no uncertain terms, that when the time comes, you will be more than happy to treat her to expensive dinners and "pay her back" for raising you, but right now you are in major debt and you just cannot afford it. Period.
If you are committed to honoring cultural mores, I would say that you should say nothing. But if you want control over your finances, you need to nip this in the bud. It will only be more of a strain on your finances when you have children (who aren't cheap).
Sarah | May 10, 2007
It is sad to see that what should be a cultural show of honor and respect for your parents is being turned into a show of manipulation and guilt. Even if you didn't have debt, you shouldn't have to deal with this.
It is a difficult choice, though. Is it worth causing a potential crisis in the family by confronting your mother? It depends on how she will react, is she a reasonable person? Are you able to bring this up in a mature manner? I wish you luck.
The only advice I can give you is to "take care" of her in the means that you are able to. don't let her verbal diarrhea about what her definition of pay back is break your goals and sanity.
c | May 10, 2007
There is nothing in the world more annoying to me than people (esp. family) who are ungrateful. I have a mother in law who is amazing--always so grateful for anything you do for her for a holiday or birthday. She is always so appreciative of the time and effort we spend to do something nice for her. My mom on the otherhand always seems like she's never satisfied regardless of what we get her. I'm really nervous because for Mother's Day I had professional photos done (I'm in my 8th month of pregnancy) and framed for her, and while everyone I tell thinks it's so thoughtful, I'm pretty sure the thought won't be all that counts.
I understand the cultural norms you're facing, and that's hard, but I really do think it should be about your thoughtfulness, not the pricetag.
If you figure out a brilliant solution I would love to hear it!
I'm sorry, but your mother sounds rude. The fact that your father was happy with your choice shows that this is beyond some cultural issue.
amy | May 10, 2007
I think you should just tell your parents that you write a blog about money and give them the web address! Then your mom can see your financial situation, freak out, and then get over it in time for the wedding. =)
fonz | May 10, 2007
I'm half asian and my mother (who is asian) acts similarly so I can relate. I have tried to have a conversation with my mother and it never seems to go the right way. She ends up accusing me of being an ungrateful daughter. If you end up having a successful talk with your mom, then please do share some advice!
Jess | May 11, 2007
Woooooow. I just wrote a comment to the other entry. I have another set of grandparents--these live on a fixed income, from SS and my grandfather's police pension. Money is very tight. Even so, my grandmother protested when my mom refused to let her pay for her flight here for my graduation. And yesterday, she insisted on paying $80 for my graduation lunch (my mom was also present). And I got a $500 check for graduation. Both of which were excessive and I would have been happy without either. But there would be no dissuading her. That just sounds ridiculous to my ears.
English Major Money | May 11, 2007
It's interesting, because there is a line, somewhere, where even the culture itself gets all, "I know there are norms and all, but this is ridiculous." I definitely come from a culture where paying for family dinners out is a symbol of generosity and magnanimity reserved for the most senior member of the dining party. It's sort of a designation of who's the caretaker. (I wrote about it here.) Anyway, in any culture, there are ways to be rude even while doing something ostensibly in line with the cultural norms--for example, I'd think it rude if my father got huffy if I so much as offered to pay for a meal.
My point is that I think your mother has crossed that line. I guess if it were me, I'd talk to your dad about how to handle it, and then maybe talk to your mother about how you love and respect her and want to do everything you can for her, but that "everything you can" is, at the moment, somewhat limited.
I know my advice is of limited value here--best of luck with whatever you decide to do.
MVW | May 11, 2007
Wow! Get real, this is not about "giving back." Your mother sounds like a spoiled brat who, for whatever reason (her childhood maybe?), clearly equates food, money and gifts with love. Don't feed into it or you'll be swimming upstream, trying to get her to adore you, for the rest of your life. I emphasize: IT WILL NEVER BE ENOUGH! Use your good sense and give her gifts that are reasonable according to your sense of obligation and your family's budget. This has been a tough lesson for me to learn as I feel pangs of guilt when I can't spend $100 on each birthday, baby shower or wedding gift for my friends and family. I have to remind myself constantly that if they truly love ME, they'll understand where my gift is coming from - my heart.
Oh, dear.
I have no cultural experience with this (my family is very much in the "pass it down and live independently of the children as long as you can in old age" mold), but I know this must hurt terribly.
I think English Major has a good idea. Approach your father first. Explain that you love and respect both of them, but that you are still trying to pay your own way. I hope he could give you some advice that would help your mother feel more appreciated without sinking your wallet.
It may simply turn out that she is not interested in any gesture that doesn't involve a big expensive meal. There aren't any good interpersonal solutions to that. But you have to remember that you are doing the responsible thing right now (and putting yourself in a better position to take care of your parents later, when they may really need you).
LL | May 11, 2007
My spouse and I are both ABCs (Chinese and Taiwanese).
My folks insist on paying for everything, even though only my dad works, and the two of us both work and we're almost 30 years old. It's really embarrassing. They do it as their way of showing love.
But my folks have lived here over 30 years, frugally saved every penny and paid off their house years ago. So now that they're empty nesters, my brother convinced them to live a little and enjoy their money. They still only mostly eat at cheap buffets.
Both my parents and in-laws never expect any presents. When we go out, we always fight over who gets to pay.
On the other hand, one of my grandmothers acts just like your mom. She's created a lot of tension in my parents' marriage.
I don't think you can blame the culture, but rather, it's a problem with the individual. Talking sense in these kinds of people is pointless. Sometimes you just need to cut down your interaction with certain people, even family members.
Sam | May 11, 2007
You are an enabler. Your spending money on your mother is just going to make the problem worse.
mary | May 11, 2007
I get why everyone is upset here, but if that's what your mom expects because of her culture, I don't think she's necessarily being malicious or a brat about it.
We have very little money to spend but I will always find some way to take my mom out for mother's day - coupons, rewards programs, special brunch deals, whatever - its easy to get creative.
Meg | May 11, 2007
If you do want to talk to your mother about this, I have an idea: Maybe you can show her what your monthly food budget is for yourself, and then show her how much a dinner at a fancy restaraunt costs in relation to your total monthly budget for food. I'm assuming that the $300 dinner was pretty close to equal your monthly budget for food, and that's why it was such a blow. Maybe if your mom sees that a $70 dinner is actually a really significant amount of money to you, she will be able to understand that you *are* paying her an acceptable amount of respect. Does your mom know about your financial situation, and the responsible goals that you have set for yourselves?
I also think that it might be a good idea to budget a category for "gifts." If you set aside some money every month for this category, then when you have an expensive period like this one, you'll have money ear-marked for the situation. If gifts and dinners out are expected and the norm for your family, this sort of budgeting might take the sting out of it.
I really enjoy this blog, by the way. You two are making great progress.
Sharon | May 11, 2007
Your mother is way way out of line. Don't feel guilty about doing what you know is best for yourself and your future. The main thing you have to do is get over thinking paying her back in any way is your job. I have two kids and I would be horrified and sickened and really disappointed in myself as a parent if they thought for one second they had to pay me back for anything I have done for them. They can pay me back by being good people and functioning members of society, and that's it.
I think Sharon makes a really good point. Cultural differences aside, I think that things become really problamatic when you try to combine emotions with finances. Your financial situation and what you can pay for should not be something that influences your relationship with your parents/children... That you are a grown man and engaged to a wonderful woman and functioning as a responsible adult should be way more than enough for your parents.
I assume that this has been going on for as long as you have had a paycheck coming in. The longer you keep letting your mother treat you this way, the harder it will be to stop it. I read the post about the $300 dinner, and it sounded like Her was pretty upset. I'm convinced that a good marriage is centered on each partner being the most important person in the world for the other. It doesn't mean that you don't love your mom - you just love your wife more. If you keep letting your mom pressure you into buying pricey meals, it will undoubtedly upset Her again and again once you are married. Not good. Frankly, your mom does not sound like a nice person. This is not a cultural issue - it's a manners issue, and your mom needs to work on hers. But you cannot continue to pay for fancy meals when you're in debt and starting a life together with Her. I wish you all the best.
romanlily | May 14, 2007
Ooof. Man. This does sound very difficult. I have no great advice here -- I can only offer my sympathy as you try to find the best way to approach this issue. Hang in there.
Jay | May 14, 2007
I think this really depends on what your parents did for you while growing up.
Did they pay for college? Grad school? Your car? A down payment on the house? The fact that they brought you to America?
I can see how some people might not understand, but if they sacrificed for you, well, I guess you just have to see what you feel you need to do for them.
Jay | May 14, 2007
Hmmm, after reading your background more I should add that if your parents didn't do all that stuff for you (i.e. pay for your college, grad school, car, down payment, etc.) then I say you owe them less.
My "cultural contract" with my parents was that. They told me to just go to school, get a degree, and not worry about money. They provided me with everything until I graduated and only then (after they gave me money for a downpayment) did I start to give them money.
You don't have kids to make them pay for your retirement, do you?
This is ridiculous. I would have a sit down talk with her. Easy for me to say of course, but that wouldn't fly in my house.
BD | May 15, 2007
Wow, good luck with this. And remember NOT to do this to your own kids later. I admire people who are able to sacrifice and support their parents when their parents really need it, but your mom does not *really need* $300 dinners on a regular basis. Would she respond better to the argument that if you give her all your money now, it won't be available for serious needs later in life, like medical care or paying off a mortgage?
clovestar | May 15, 2007
I don't think his mother's behavior is due to culture at all. My mom (who's Chinese) is the total opposite where she feels uncomfortable when I spend too much money on her. If I take my parents out to eat, she'd rather go to an inexpensive, casual restaurant or better yet, have a nice homecooked meal. And she's always encouraging me to save as much money as possible because she wants me to have a secure financial future.
I think English Major's Money advice was key - talk to your dad. After years of marriage to your mother, he'll know better than anyone what she's really after and how you can mitigate the situation. I don't agree with the comments that you should share your budget with your mom in detail; you may post it here, but this is done anonymously. However, you should share with her your pride in paying off debt and saving, and perhaps even stroke her ego by alluding to how your upbringing has given you the good sense to do so. The key here is, she's your mother, regardless of her faults, so unless she's a monster, you have an obligation to treat her with respect (not lectures). A little diplomacy would go a long way. Maybe your dad can start commenting on how much he loves when you cook for them. Then you could only take your mom out for her birthday or another deisgnated holiday. These little compromises could actually improve your relationship with both your parents.
Good luck.
My mom must have missed the memo on this being part of Asian culture, because I certainly don't feel such pressure.
I think you should take one-on-one with your mom about it, otherwise it's just going to simmer.
Livingalmostlarge | May 15, 2007
Typical, my MIL is like that...What can you do? But for causing a bad relationship. And she is exactly like your mom. I'm so glad they live 3k miles away.
I am appalled that most of the comments above are so miserly. You bunch of miserable ungrateful kids. None of you seem to realise how much your parents have spent on your education, medical, food and housing and extracurricular activities. Lets not mention anguish, fear, planning, personal compromising. The lists of waking at night worrying about you kids goes on and on. You owe it to your mother. I am disgusted that you can worry about a miserable $400 in one month! The school fees I pay for my son are $1,200 per month, and that does not include food, clothing, pocket money, electricity, gas, mortgage etc. etc. etc. I pay that much because I WANT him be able to do what he wants in life.
I pray he will not be resentful that I would expect him to pay for lunch on Mothers Day.
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Jennie,
I think your post is way out of line. You CHOOSE to pay $1200/month for your child to go to school. If you didn't want to pay to raise a child you shouldn't have had one. Everything you listed should be provided out of love, not out of expectation for repayment. You call the responders [REDACTED], but IMO you're worse. To me it sounds like you're bribing your child with material objects to get his love instead of earning it through honest affection and emotion. You list everything you provide for him, except for the thing that is most important. I'll tell you I'd rather go to a crappy public school and know my mom loves me than an expensive private school and know my mom looks at me as a future source of income.
Do you want your child to do things for you because he loves you or because you guilt him into feeling indebted to you? Personally I'd prefer love and I can show love with a $30 meal just as easily as with a $300 meal.
Love doesn't have a price tag. I think you need to take a look at your values and I hope your child chooses a job that will make *HIM* happy instead of being forced into one that will pay enough to support you.
Sad and pathetic are the words that come to mind.
mm | Oct 3, 2007
A late comment, but this post really spoke to me. My mom too expects extravagant gifts, and readily commits us to expensive restaurant meals and family trips. My parents can easily afford to pay for all of us, but for years failed to do so meal after meal after fancy meal. Doing "nice" gifts since childhood, I continued to do so after I married, until her narcissistic behavior went overboard once too often and both DH and I balked big time.
We've/I've scaled back dramatically. Now I chose modest but nice gifts, often hardback books, and stopped trying to please her unsatiable need to be spoiled rotten by her family.
By the way, my generosity hasn't been reciprocated, and my parents didn't sacrifice nor give me a pampered upbringing.
Michael | May 10, 2007
Jesus H. Christ, man. This blows my mind. Isn't this a blog about financial responsibility and getting out of debt? This behavior from your mom is essentially making you a debtor to them 100% of the time just because they conceived you and birthed you.
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