Relationships and Finances, Reader Submission: JP's Story
Posted on February 12, 2007 by Him and tagged finances, relationship
This is a part of our continuing series on reader submissions on relationships and finances. If you would like to share your story on relationships and finances, please see this post Without further ado, here's JP's story.
Okay, I will admit it. Finances is one of our worst areas of communication. There are so many problems, and we don't really deal with any of them. But here goes:
A quick portrait - as a single woman in my 20s I made enough to save, invest, give to charities, travel, and spend on small splurges (mostly books and a pedicure every six months or so). My parents paid for my college degree, so I didn't have student loans. I had gotten into a bit of a credit card hole as a teen, but my parents closed the account with a stern warning not to spend money I didn't have. They paid off the card I got at my university's bookstore to the tune of about $700. For almost ten more years I never got another credit card, using just my check card or cash. I financed a car and paid it off in 2 years, and generally rented with roommates.
My now-husband was divorced with a child, and was also a small business owner trying to re-invest as much money as possible into his company; thus his salary was pretty meager. After the divorce he didn't want to battle his ex-wife and conceded a lot. His child support payments were so high that he could not live on his own, so he lived with his parents -- culturally acceptable because he is Hispanic and very close to his family. Together with his parents he rented an apartment. As a fairly recent immigrant he had bought a new car (but a modest one) at an average price, but with less-that-stellar financing that he eventually paid off. My husband did not have any credit cards or any other debt. Without his knowledge, my husband's ex-wife got several credit cards ran up the bills, and never paid. These were eventually "charged off." My husband always paid his bills, though sometimes late. When he checked his credit, it was wrecked. He contacted the credit card companies, and without much trouble got the major black marks off his credit report since he had never signed, used or even known about the cards.
While we were dating we lived separately and had a fair number of talks about certain aspects of our finances. We planned to buy a condo and move in when we got married. Which we did. The real estate agent advised my husband to get a credit card and use it responsibly to build up his credit. He did, and I did the same. We got a great mortgage rate and some extra assistance with the purchase through a First-Time Homebuyers program in our area. We bought a condo I knew we could afford.
We paid for our wedding with savings and gifts from our parents. We have done a lot of work on the apartment ourselves and furnished it with a lot of things we got at the wedding. We are pretty frugal.
Though I imagined we would share money after we got married, it hasn't happened. With my higher salary I pay our mortgage, our telephone bill, our homeowners insurance, car insurance and medical insurance, my own cell phone bill, and some other minor monthly bills. My husband pays for our cable and our condo fee, in addition to his child support. I pay a greater portion of our entertainment and grocery costs, but he does pay sometimes. I came to terms with the child support before we got married. I truly believe that it is not in the best interest of his son that he pays so much, and I think he would agree but he does not want to go back to haggle with his ex about it. And I have accepted that. He did increase his salary when we bought the condo, but it is still about half of mine.
I'm stretched a lot farther financially now. I rarely have extra money for the little things I used to do, and save a lot less. And sometimes I resent that. I worry about paying for college or having more kids or some unforeseen medical disaster just around the corner or being able to take the vacations I want.
When I start to talk about money, he always winds up saying -- "If you need money, just ask." But even if I do ask, it is usually forgotten. I wouldn't put myself in a situation where I really needed his money. I don't know if he feels that our financial burden is as unequal as I think it is. Maybe it is pretty equal and I just need to hear his side. Maybe I just need to ask for more. Maybe I just worry too much.
The thing is, his smaller salary doesn't bother me. I don't mind that we almost never go out to eat or go to the movies. And this whole financial analysis makes my husband sound so lesser, when in reality he is an amazing amazing husband and one of the most incredible fathers you have ever seen. He is gorgeous, and funny, and helps out around the house, and sometimes surprises me with a note in my purse or dinner cooking when I get home tired or a foot massage. He always has the words to make me believe, and is so supportive of me in ways no other man has been. I could go on and on - the patience, the sex, the trust. And I think, so what does money matter? We have enough.
We have talked about him staying home if we have more kids, and I think it would be great. And he really wants more.
We have agreed that is his ex-wife tries to apply for more child support, we will fight it. (But I swear -- if his ex-wife was in need I would gladly help her out. Take my word for it, she does not need the extra income. And she is not very good with money - my dream is that if she takes us to court for more money, maybe we can stop with the child support altogether and save that money for college for the kid. He spends half his time with us and we split or cover costs of all the basics, anyhow.)
We have talked about me going back to school ~ I'd like to change careers.
We have talked about getting a new car.
We have talked about helping some of his extended family overseas and talked about moving back there once V goes to college.
We have talked about taking care of our parents when they are older, or my brother who is developmentally disabled.
But those are dreams, plans, hopes and fears. We haven't talked about who will pay the next time we go to the grocery store.
Here and now, I am left with bills that will take up most of my paycheck and a shockingly small amount left over. Lucky he is so damn good.
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BD | Feb 12, 2007
Wow, what a great and honest post! I wonder if it would remove some of the resentment and help the husband realize how asymmetric things are if JP gave up the actual paying of the bills, and had the husband do it. Even if it's still mostly JP's money, having her husband get involved in the process might get a dialogue started at the very least.
I agree with autologic here.. If the idea is to share money, how would one ever get to that point when you have separate accounts, or his money and her money.
I'm just curious if you ever discussed "sharing money" before you got married? I've talked to some other married couples and I'm pretty amazed to learn how often people get married before even talking about their individual financial situations.
I find it difficult to picture a married couple keeping their finances as separate as you do. My wife and I consider all of the money we take in to be "our" money and we are both extremely happy with that arrangement.
Thanks for your honesty and your story. It is always interesting to see how people manage their money situation.
all the best.
Yes, the missing bit, is she envisioned sharing money, but why didn't it happen then? Especially with unequal incomes putting everything into one account would be better I think.
Zelda | Feb 13, 2007
I'm going to buck the trend a bit with a vote for separate accounts. Like JP, I married someone who had a much lower salary and some historic debts. While I whored myself to "the man" to pay off my grad school loans, my hubby deferred his loans so that he could take a (low-paying) job he loves. I said fine, but that I would not subsidize his dreams at the expense of my own. So we went through the household expenses and determined which portion each of us would pay. Most things (rent, utilities) are 50/50, though I pick up most of the car expenses and our entertainment budget. (Sidenote: we've intentionally kept our cost of living low so that he can afford his share.) Anything we each earn above and beyond the budget is discretionary. It may seem unusual, but it was the only way I could come up with that I would not eventually resent him. We've been together 5 years and have yet to have a fight about money.
For those who might say that it's unfair in light of your husband's child support payments, I'd ask how your husband would have supported himself had he not married you.)
Thanks for sharing your story --best of luck.
autologic | Feb 13, 2007
Zelda - It seems odd to me that you could be in a marriage with someone whom you plan to share your lives forever and 'know' you would resent him if he spent the money you earned.
“I would not subsidize his dreams at the expense of my own.”
I also find it sad that you and your husband have separate dreams which you don't feel can both be realized. That is depressing.
Zelda | Feb 14, 2007
Autologic - the resentment would not come from my husband spending the money I earned - it would come from any assumption that I should continue working a job I dislike so that I could own primary responsibility for our financial viability, while he is free to follow his bliss regardless. What would you suggest -- that we let go of economic stability so that we both do what we want to do? That I (as the partner with the highest earning potential) suck it up? Please advise.
Getting married (or having shared dreams) doesn't mean that the participants don't retain aspects of their identities as individuals. Sometimes those aspects (or dreams or desires or priorities) naturally fit together, sometimes they don't. Successfully negotiating that compromise is the basis for a long-lasting, healthy marriage. (I'm guessing that the divorce rate is due in part to people making compromises they are not prepared to live with, then growing more and more resentful of their situation.)
autologic | Feb 14, 2007
Zelda - You state that you and your husband have chosen a lower cost of living so that he can contribute equally to it with his lower pay. If this is true then you should be able to take a lower paying job you love and live the same lifestyle. The only difference is that you would no longer have 'your' extra money to spend on 'you discretionary purchases.’ It sounds like you are working a job you hate to support not your cost of living but your personal 'discretionary' spending habits.
jj | Feb 14, 2007
I didn't read Zelda's post as implying she's blowing money on shoes. She said she's working a job that allows her to pay off her student loans while her husband has chosen not to do the same. Additionally she's fine with living cheaply and paying more than half of the expenses. If she realizes that there's room for resentment and that separate accounts are all it takes to avoid that resentment, it sounds like she's found a very easy solution.
Zelda | Feb 14, 2007
jj -- you are correct -- 85% of my "discretionary" bucket is actually paying off my student loans and putting money away for retirement. (My hope is to pay off my loans and build up enough of a nest egg that I can quit my corporate gig for something I find more personally fulfilling.)
LivingAlmostLarge | Feb 16, 2007
Wild Zelda, I would never and have never resented my DH for my student loans I took out to support him. Or the fact he has student loans now to help us out. It's just life. PreviouslY I made 2x what he made, now he makes 4x what I make.
It's still our money. I support whatever he wants and he does the same amazingly. That's why we're married.
Unlike JP, I feel no resentment towards my DH and only have joint accounts. The only time we didn't was when we weren't married and DH couldn't be on the mortgage on a Visa. Other than that we are pretty happy.
I by no means am a marriage expert which may make you ask why the heck I'm talking. I'm just going to regurgitate some Dave Ramsey advice since I listen to him everyday.
It sounds like JP and her husband do have marriage issues (or what could someday turn into marriage issues). As someone earlier pointed out, the use of "my" money and "his" money shows a separation that shouldn't be there as a married couple. Marriage counseing sounds like it might be needed. It's not so much a money issue as a marriage issue. Not that divorce is knocking on the door, but that the car needs a tune up.
So there's my two cents. It's beyong money at this point. They should get together with a pastor or marriage counselor before it spills over into other areas and the big D rears it's ugly head.
Elisabet
24 yr old trying to get out of debt.
Again this is regurgitated stuff.
Kyesha | Feb 17, 2007
I understand what Zelda is saying...I have a job that I definitely would quit if I could, and my husband has a job he enjoys immensly. I earn twice his salary. When he goes on about how much he loves his job and that I should love mine too, sometimes I find myself mumbling that I would love to, but who would pay the bills? We have a joint account, and it works out pretty well since he's a whiz at budgets...but sometimes I can't help but feel that I should have more say than him about where the surplus money at the end of the month goes.
txgirl | Feb 17, 2007
well, there's your problem right there, Kyesha. It seems to me (but I'm no expert) that you are experiencing resentment that is about more than just where the "extra" money goes at the end of the month.
That might be better defined as a relationship power-sharing issue -- as in, who has the power to decide and control, who gets veto power?
If that issue doesn't get explored, it will spill into other areas of the relationship, and then you may find yourself seeking a counselor for a marriage in crisis, rather than just course adjustments.
Nip those resentments in the bud RIGHT NOW by talking about them sooner rather than later, before they get any bigger.
Resentment = poison.
If you're mumbling under your breath, "but who would pay the bills?" if you switched to a job you liked better, you are headed for trouble. On the one hand is growing resentment that he gets to have all the "fun" while you suffer; on the other, he tries to help you find another way but you rebuff him.
From this outsider's perspective (and from painful personal experience), that is NOT a recipe for happy long-term collaboration.
My advice: a joint account into which all the money goes,from which all bills are paid, including all future financial goals. You set aside a "money date" each month (or every two weeks) to pay all the bills together, decide how much goes into savings, retirement, house donw-payment, vacation, college fund, etc. That forces you to talk to each other regularly about money. Give it time: with practice, money-talk will become a lot easier and a lot less conflicted... and that will come in handy twenty, thirty, fifty years down the road.
An equal amount or percentage (more or less depending on your own preferences) from each paycheck is then set aside, and placed into individual accounts for personal "fun" money, for which no explanation or justification is needed to the other. That can be for clothes, gifts, gadgets, etc. Agree in advance that any really big purchases over a certain $ amount must be mutually agreed upon by both spouses -- so no surprise cars for Christmas, like in the commercials.
To be clear: your twenty per cent (or whatever amount) from your paycheck goes into your fun-money account; his percentage is based on his paycheck amount, and goes directly into his personal fun-money account. It won't be an equal amount, but it will be an equal proportion. He chose the lower-paying job, so his fun-money will be proportionally less.
A proportional set-aside allows both spouses to blow off some steam -- adults need to feel in control of their own lives (it isn't fun being the lower-earning spouse, either). It also means you get proportionally more of your "own" money to play with, rather than splitting equally "whatever's left over" -- which might feel a little more fair to you.
Zelda, it seems to me that the child support issue is sticky only if you are not sure you want to be fully committed as stepmother to the child. In my family, that money comes out of the household account, from both spouses.
michaelo | Feb 18, 2007
Child support is rarely "agreed upon": there is a formula, though it varies from state-to-state. It's almost impossible to go below the formula but your husband may have been steamrolled into an arrangement above it.
You should check the formula against your husband's wages and see if he's paying too much. If so make a "modification" motion and pay less. If he wants to pay what the formula says he should pay that should be relatively straightforward unless there are extreme circumstances (for example, a severely disabled child).
Of course, if you and your husband had custody of his child you'd pay no child support and maybe even get some.
Rayne | Feb 18, 2007
I agree with michaelo, find out if he's paying too much in CS based on your state formula. You might be surprised that what he is paying IS appropriate. In my state it is 20% for one child, 28% for two, and increasing each child to 50% for 5 or more. If it turns out he's paying too much of his net income to child support go to the courthouse and pick up a petition to modify, fill it out and turn it in, and within a few weeks he'll go in front of the judge for a short hearing. He doesn't need an atty for this, but it does help. Also if the custody agreement and reality is truly a 50/50 split he might be able to get a reduction based on that.
Jen | Feb 19, 2007
Yeah, I'm with Zelda on this one. We "share" money, but there is still "his" money and "mine". Though we still dream in tandem, we remain individuals. If I have a debt, we work together to pay it off, and vice versa. But there is still "his", "mine", and "ours".
"Let there be spaces in your togetherness," y'all ;)
JJ | Feb 20, 2007
(I responded above to Zelda) I've been supporting my boyfriend for the last couple of years while he returned to school. He just got a wonderful job that will make him very happy while earning less than half of what I make ... and I'm not overly compensated myself. We are ourselves trying to figure out how to apportion money, and who does what, and what fair means ... and what whether fair = equitable = happy. There are days I don't want to go to work and I also need to prevent resentment from growing in this situation. I might note that he earns less than more but is much better at bargain hunting, our collective money goes much further when I don't shop alone. Even with all the differences of opinion floating around here I think this is a great discussion, and one where the problem probably gets solved differently in every relationship.
Oh ... And personally, one idea we've been kicking around is that because in reality my paycheck is supporting us we're going to just acknowledge that and send his new income straight to a savings account where we will ignore it until it makes a down payment on a house or something equally helpful to our future. My money will be divided between living expenses (he's great at keeping this in check), IRAs (I'm good at planning for this) and short term savings. It seems positive to acknowledge that we've each got a different type of money planning to bring to the table.
Stephanie | Feb 28, 2007
This discussion has helped me to realize I must get my resentment in check before it destroys my marriage.
My husband and I have been married for five years. In that time, our financial differences have only worsened. When we were first married, my husband was finishing his degree while I had already completed graduate school and was working. Since my husband had no income, I paid all of the expenses. He accumulated $30,000 in student loans without my knowledge during this time. He still cannot explain how he spent the money.
Once my husband completed his degree he was able to find a position in his field, however, the pay is still about half of what I earn. He loves his teaching career, but his salary barely covers his student loans and doesn't begin to pay for life's necesseties.
I spent four years in a position I hated and also worked a second job so that we could make ends meet. When I finally could not bear to continue in the field I was working in, I felt my only option was to search for jobs that would pay equally as well. I was able to find another well-paid position in a different field, but it still isn't what I would like to do.
I feel resentful that my husband is able to work in a profession he loves, while I am "stuck" in positions that pay above a certain thrshold.
If I were to take a job that paid less, we could not afford to live. My husband does not make enough to cover any living expenses. I am not sure how to get over my anger and resentment toward this situation.
autologic | Feb 12, 2007
"Though I imagined we would share money after we got married, it hasn't happened. With my higher salary I pay our mortgage..." I find it odd that you say you envisioned sharing money but in the next sentence state that 'you' pay for the mortgage. If you truly wanted to share money than you would say 'we' pay the mortgage etc. When I think of couples sharing money I think of both paychecks filling the same account and all bills being paid from that account. It seems a silly matter of semantics to say 'my money pays for this' and his 'pays for that' when it's your money.
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