What I Meant To Say The First Time - Her Response
Posted on April 29, 2006 by Her and tagged wedding
It is evident that I have made some colossal mistakes in my previous post.
Primarily, I made an error in communication. I did not express myself accurately. Re-reading my post now, I see how I have painted myself as a greedy, granny-robbing bridezilla. Wow, was that un-cool. Our readers were right to call me on my sense of entitlement and the insanity of expecting money from parents who do not have it.
To clarify:
I was not aware of the severity of my parents’ situation until my mom told me. Previously, she had been planning my dream wedding for seven years and had been hinting at a $10,000 wedding gift for four months. They did not express concern for their future, so how could I have known? I assumed they had been saving money aside since our engagement. After all, that’s what we’ve been doing. I expected them to give us a wedding gift because they said many times they would, not because I have deformed sense of entitlement.
To be clear to our readers, my parents are doing poorly only because they have heinously mismanaged their money. For example, they purchased cars –twice in the past 6 years- equal to their annual income, financed entirely with new debt. And the Christmas gifts they purchased with their home equity loan were along the line of $600 satellite radios and $2000 garnet bracelets (no, not for me). They aren’t blameless for their situation and it isn’t fair for them to expect me to be their retirement plan. That’s why I am angry.
To those who take issue with my choice of words, “the student loans my parents forced me to take out,” all I can say is that it’s true. My parents used the money I had personally saved up for college in order to make minimum credit card payments after my mom decided to redecorate the house on a lark. They also pulled some “creative” tax stunts that made me ineligible for financial aid, causing me take out private student loans at high interest rates. Their greed cost me $36,000 in additional student loan principal. While attending my inexpensive college, I worked as many as four jobs simultaneously. I had scholarships. I had assistantships. Newsflash: a bachelor’s degree and two master’s degrees are expensive no matter how much assistance you receive.
My post also incorrectly emphasized the $10,000 amount. What was truly bothering me was the symbolism of zero. I felt my mom was removing herself entirely from my wedding, and passively expressing disapproval of our marriage, and that hurt a lot. I want my mom to be part of our wedding and supportive of our marriage, money or no money. If she had said, “I can’t give a financial gift but I’d love to help you arrange the flowers,” that would have changed everything. It wasn’t about the money, it was about the relationship.
I ended the phone call with my mom because I was crying and I did not want her to hear me and feel guilty. I knew by then that she could not afford a gift and I did not want her to give us anything out of guilt. But I was also reeling from the shock of a huge budget reduction and my parents’ emotional detachment. I tried to end the phone call before she heard me, but she kept me on the phone until it was too late. Despite our differences, I care very much for my parents. Their financial security is important to me. Knowing the severity of their situation now, I am going to try to help them maximize what they have and make sound financial decisions in the future.
I called my mom back today. We talked for a couple of hours and everyone is okay. I acknowledged that my expectations were unreasonable and my mom acknowledged that she is responsible for not having a financial plan. She clarified that the zero dollar amount was not symbolic of anything and that she wants to be included in the wedding planning. I brainstormed lots of ways she can be involved without spending any money, like arranging flowers from Costco, helping me do price comparisons at the stores in her area, doing the lettering on our invitations, etc. I made it clear to her that her involvement is far more important to me than cash. In her heart, she wishes she could throw a huge fancy wedding but I reassured her that isn’t necessary. If she does give us an inappropriate gift, Him and I have agreed not to accept it.
Him and I have been talking this over all week and we have a new plan. Instead of reserving our venue right now, we are going to wait until the end of the summer when we estimate we will have saved enough money ourselves. We are going to refocus our search for venues that provide a better value for less cost. We are still planning to book our ceremony at our church. We are members there, it has great sentimental value to us, and God is first on our guest list. We also believe in the mission of the church and it makes us feel good to give them our donation. We are going to purchase flowers from Costco and I’ll arrange them myself (in vases I can later sell on eBay!). We are going to make our own invitations. I will purchase a second-hand gown. We will register for our honeymoon in lieu of gifts. We will negotiate everything. We will pay for our wedding ourselves (we were always planning to pay for the bulk of it ourselves anyway) and it will all work out.
To Him, I apologize. I did not show my post to Him before hitting submit and I greatly embarrassed Him. I wrote so badly that even Him was confounded. It took about 12 hours of me explaining (and Him saying, “But that’s not what you wrote!”) before we were on the same page. Fortunately, Lakeshore Drive has enough gridlock that we had ample time to discuss everything. I am grateful to Him for being patient and trying so hard to understand my garbled emotional baggage and help come up with a new wedding plan.
Thank you to everyone who made genuine budget-cutting suggestions and shared their stories of meaningful, financially responsible weddings. Your stories are an inspiration and we appreciate your links to good information.
To those who have sensationalized my post, editing wildly to make a headline story on your own blog, shame on you. My post needed editing, but not by you. Yelling at me for things I never said helps no one.
Money and relationships can be thorny. As our blog is at the intersection of these topics, conflict and miscommunication are inevitable. It would be easy to throw in the towel on this blog. We work hard on our finances and relationship, so we’re going to keep working hard on this blog.
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Hi Her,
Just want to say, I really admire your guts in being honest in your posts, things can be so misconstrued online, so don't beat yourself up over it. I very much enjoy reading your blog and appreciate your clarification, and definitely congrats for "not throwing in the towel" and for treating your readers with more civility than you have been treated by some.
I wish you guys the best and look forward to reading more posts in the future!
Wanda
Oh my gosh--don't be so hard on yourself. I understood what you were trying to say and I don't think you're a horrible person. Good grief. I can't believe people are giving you a hard time about your previous post.
Heather | Apr 29, 2006
I took your first entry to be an emotional knee-jerk reaction. We've all have those. You just have the guts to write about it publically. I look forward to reading more about your wedding.
One thing that might save you money... on theknot.com we used the save-the-date option and email people to get an idea if they are going to attend. That way we have a more definite list when we send out the real invites... saving us money.
Andrea | Apr 29, 2006
Nice picture. Thanks for being open about this, despite misunderstandings, lectures, and general emotional-ness. Most of all, it seems like you've definately had a chance for relationship growth. Good job on your communication, financial planning, and independence.
There are tons of areas to save on when planning a wedding (sounds like you've already planned several!), so I cheer for the choice to hold the ceremony in an expensive place that is important to you. Being thrifty in some areas will make that stuff possible.
Congratulations! Keep us up to date on the planning - sounds like there are a ton of people who are willing to help if you need it! :)
Nicholas | Apr 29, 2006
I read all the previous comments and really want to emphasize again how when compared to the overall life you will have together how trivial the actual wedding itself will be. The most beautiful wedding I ever went to was a potluck held on the back wooden patio of the parents of the bride. We sat on picnic benches as pews and then dragged them over to the tables to chow down to some fine BBQ afterwards. I can't tell you much about the bride and groom because I didn't know either of them. They were friends of my cousin whom I happened to visiting. No one minded an extra friendly face at this beautiful wedding.
The most expensive wedding I ever went to had it all and the couple was divorced within a year. They had dated for three years of high school, lived together through four years of college and were given a condo in Northridge, California from the bride's father as a wedding gift. None of that mattered a year latter.
My own wedding was an elopement to Las Vegas. We spent less than $600 and have we ever been thankful afterwards. We both love each other so much and are so happy we have had so little debt to contend with over the years. Our net-worth is $1.2 million now. We have no student loan debt, no car payments, no credit cards, nothing besides the mortgage. I'll gladly share that the amount owed on all of those items was $65k at one time.
We recently began thinking about a recommitment ceremony. We still didn't even want to do anything lavish there. We wanted a "Survivor" theme with Hawaiian shirts, tiki torches, fun things like that. We're still getting around to that. However with debt like you two have, do yourself a favor and spend the money, even the saving you think would be worth it on this wedding on getting rid of your debt.
Those kids, housing needs, and everything will come along so quickly and weigh so heavily soon enough. When my wife discovered she was pregnant, we buckled down and payed off the last $13,000 we owed in less than a year just so she could have the choice of staying home with our child. Weddings are just a ceremony and the reception is just a party. These don't even take a full day. The rest of your life is what matters most. I can understand wanting to spend more but just consider that another vestige of the bad financial upbringing.
Cheleed | Apr 29, 2006
Her, you are so brave! Reading this follow up post (and his response) I can more fully understand the situation. Bravo to you for sharing..twice and I wish you all the luck.
PS
If I was a big meanie, please allow me to apologize.
I agree with Nicholas on the wedding. It really isn't that important. It seems really important now, but once it is done, it really won't.
On communication and your relationship. That was an awesome miscommunication. If your relationship is anything like mine, it won't be the last, but hopefully then rest of the big understandings don't go public. Hopefully it will be seen as an incredibly funny mistake, sooner, rather than later.
Hey, I think it's great that you understand where some of us were coming from. There certainly was a difference between what you wrote before and what you wrote here. Anyhow please don't take things too seriously (it doesn't seem like you do usually ;))- I know that the internet can be a mean place when you can leave anonymous comments.
I hope that you'll look back upon this post and see it as a positive experience. It sounds like you are on the right track. Good luck on the wedding plans.
isabelle | Apr 30, 2006
Let me just throw in a little practical advice from the perspective of 14 years past the wedding day.
Splurge on the photographs.
It must have been a bit of a shock getting all those responses ...
I completely empathise with how you felt and how you were feeling when you posted originally. Things always seem huge when they are unexpected like that. But as you can see, there are so many other ways for your mother to be involved and for your wedding to be perfect.
Good luck and hang in there. :)
I read your first post, His post, and now your new post. Just wanted to get that out of the way before I commented.
What you want for your wedding is what you want. I don't know if you had dreams of walking down the aisle in a white dress with your father on your arm since you were a kid, and if you did, then you should realize those dreams.
That said, here's my take. I was recently married (like, last week) as a very small ceremony (10 people) at a lovely resort up in Vermont. My parents, my husband's parents, and two sets of our closest friends attended. Our friend officiated (www.ulc.org) for us. It was so personal and wonderful that I can't even explain it.
Two months from now, we're having a "party" in lieu of a formal reception at a place near our house. The entire thing is going to cost under $10,000. You CAN have an inexpensive wedding. Frankly, it's the guest count that makes it really expensive.
I come from an area where weddings are as expensive, if not more expensive, than Chicago. My husband and I knew that we were going to be purchasing a house around the same time as the wedding, and we reasoned that the debt of a house was a "good" debt, while the debt of a wedding was a "bad" debt. And we're satisfied.
Yes, your wedding day is sentimental, but it is BY NO MEANS the most important day of your life. The wedding industry wants you to think it is; it encourages brides to act as though life will END if she can't get those perfect roses. I hope you get a reality check and realize that your huge amount of student loan debt (and I have it, too... I went to a private law school) would be better served by paying it down or by purchasing a house/condo than it would be by having a wedding you can't afford.
Also: my mother died a year ago. She wasn't able to be at my wedding at all and met my husband only once before she died. Maybe that will give you a little perspective on what it's like to go through a wedding with NO parent to support you, rather than one who is embarrassed by her lack of financial planning and your judgmental attitude towards same.
Wow. This has been quite a series of posts. Kudos to you both for laying everything out so honestly.
Dear Her, Wow there were definitely some huge mistakes in your earlier post. Thank you for the clarification and for having the courage to continue posting. I read your earlier post yesterday and I was extremely shocked. You did sound like a spoiled brat, which was much different than your earlier writing. I knew something had to be amiss. Your clarification about when you found out about your parents' financial situation and the student loan fiasco was much appreciated. I also appreciated the helpful comments you received from other readers about whether a $25K wedding is worth it. That is my wedding budget and my fiance and I are getting to the point where we're getting very close to budget. I would also second the recommendation for Bridal Bargains. Check it out from your local library. If you do decide to get the book, please purchase it off the link from my blog. Thanks and keep up the good work!
Wow. I wasn't expecting such a blow up from your readers. I think when it comes to weddings, family and money, it's touchy all-around. I don't think expecting your parents to fulfill a promise they've made to you is expecting a lot. It sounds like it was just the capper to a lifetime of disappointments when it came to money. I'm still bitter about a $300 passbook savings account my parents cashed out when I was four. They bought bedroom furniture for it, which they still use. It shouldn't matter at all, but it's weird how memories like that stick with us. Many hugs to you and Him for braving the internet and its moonbat commenters.
Jocular Jarhead | Apr 30, 2006
I am glad to hear that you have worked things out with Him and with your parents. When I read your original post, I was very surprised by the tone. But after rereading it a couple fo times, I recognized the knee-jerk reaction and bottled up tension that was there.
Glad to see you are feeling more settled now and have spoken with you fiance and mother. Family is more important than anything, in my eyes.
As far as all of the negative feedback, just remember the words of George Carlin: "Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things."
Best of luck in your future!
Major | May 1, 2006
As your title says: money issues are hard on relationships. Throw in a wedding and you know have a situation that is only slightly less combustible than a gallon of gasoline, a lit match, and a stick of dynamite.
I will stick by my Best Wedding Advice ever... "If at the end of the day you are married then it was a successful wedding."
Seriously though, belive me when I say that wedding issues may seem tantamount now, but when it is done, they are merely something to chuckle about.
Mr. & Mrs. Major's wedding adventure.........
1) Wedding shop went out of business, kept our money, and the first dress.
2) Second dress, company called to announce they were getting out of the wedding business - we did actually manage to get this dress.
3) Event planner at the hotel lost our contract, and then quit.
4) Second event planner changed a bunch of stuff in the contract (We got free weekends because of it).
5) Ring shopping - I think the stores where we got the wedding ring and engagement ring think I am a manwhore because I always had a different female friend with me. They commented to spouse when we went to have them cleaned.
6) One groomsman wasn't allowed to take off work and make it to the wedding.
7) One usher got accepted to the police academy and they were doing in processing that weekend.
8) One bridesmaid got a boob reduction acfter her dress was fitted.
9) One bridesmaid was dumped with the phrase "I just can't see us getting married" 2 days before the wedding
10) The girls shoes were getting dyed - one cream, one blue, 5 burgundy. What we got: one cream five blue, one burgundy.
11) The shop where we got the invitations from went out of business.
12) The best man was still pretty green in the gills from the night before.
The list goes on and on..... but in December we will be celebrating our 10th Anniversay. And the stories are still pretty damn funny.
Have fun and enjoy this time.
Christina | May 1, 2006
I am getting married in April of next year and completely understand your stress over the money. I knew weddings were expensive but never realized how expensive until I started planning mine. A suggestion for you to save $$$. I read in your last post that you want to buy a second hand dress, well so am I. I found the dress of my dreams but it is $1900 (which doesn't include alterations, veil, etc.) and I just couldn't see spending that kind of money so I Googled the name of the designer and style number and found someone that wanted to sell hers. We are the exact same size and I am pretty sure I will be buying it from (I still want to see if I can drop the price). I will be paying around $1000 for the dress that is a 100% silk and cathedral length veil. You can't beat that!
John | May 1, 2006
I take back my "brat" comment after your more eloquent explanation. Words are powerful, both yours and mine!
Michael | May 1, 2006
Honestly, after reading through about half of the comments on the original post, it seems like most people's reaction was not to label you as a brat, but to offer suggestions on how to either have a wedding that was cheaper than it looked, or on how to be content with a cheaper wedding. Granted, I would assume that the farther down in the comments you get, the less familiar the commenters would be with your blog, so maybe I didn't get to the really mean comments. Still, I think anybody who's familiar with your blog didn't take that post as representative of how the two of you feel about money.
Anon E. Mouse | May 1, 2006
I think the responses to the original post (mine included) were due to two factors:
1. The sense of entitlement, which apparently was the result of an incorrect inferrence on the part of your readers due to insufficient information.
2. The need for a $25,000 wedding, when you are already far in debt. It sounds like you've taken to heart that a wedding needn't cost even 1/3 or 1/4 that.
I'll reiterate; for my wife and I, the single best financial decision we've made was keeping our wedding affordable. I'm very glad to hear that you're thinking along those lines as well. There are few things I'd like more than to see the wedding industry crumble; much like the funeral industry, they make a killing preying on insecurities and conflicts among people under emotional duress. Their success is in direct proportion to the debt assumed by young people, who can ill afford it.
I do think, though, that if you're going to put your life on display in a blog, you need to accept that while your successes may be broadcast elsewhere, so will your snafus.
Jamie | May 1, 2006
I just wanted to say that I'm completely impressed with the way you handled all this hoopLah! Good for you!
I found some great sites on the web for cheap wedding supplies that look fabulous! I hope you can find somethings to make your day everything you ever wanted it to be!!!!
http://www.freshroses.com/
http://www.save-on-crafts.com/howecasu.html
http://www.cherryblossomgardens.com/cpaper.htm
It takes a strong woman to make this post and I commend you. I wish you the very best and I am glad that you have a wonderful fiancé to support and love you. Regardless of a public blog, I think the same general rule should apply that if you do not have anything good or constructive to say, then you should refrain from saying anything. Best wishes!!!
Love the picture! Glad to see you have been able to shake this off. I am hoping you will share lots of tips (and not to dos) when planning an affordable wedding. Good luck.
melody | May 3, 2006
I only stumbled across your blog recently - I remember well my own forays into bridezilla territory, and certain disappointments with people who did not follow through with commitments. It can be stressful enough to plan a wedding at the best of times. I'm a pastor, and I've seen some family relationships take hits during these 'life events', especially if there's unresolved issues bubbling under the surface.
I'm curious, though, about this whole 'reservation' thing with your church. I serve in a rural church, so our 'suggested donation' is a little scaled down (we're talking $75-$150 for the use of the sanctuary and I don't even ask for a payment for my services, although most couples do give me a gift around $150). But, in my experience, 'membership has its privileges'. A lot of churches have fee schedules that discourage people who have no connection or commitment to the actual faith community from abusing their services or facilities ("Can you do our wedding? We think your building would look good in our pictures. But we're not into that God stuff, so could you just leave that out? Thanks!" "Uh, no."). Nobody likes to be taken advantage of, and that includes churches. But if you are members of this church, that implies you already support this community, financially and otherwise. Many churches cut their members a break when it comes to the use of the facilities. When you meet with your pastor for pre-marital preparation, can you mention your financial situation and see how your church can help? Surprisingly enough, most faith communities are not in the money making business (although its nice when we break even). Sometimes we are around to actually minister to people, to serve, support and care for them! ;)
Lindsey | May 10, 2006
In case you haven't seen these, check out Sulla's Tips: http://tinyurl.com/8lpu4
And we are all emotional. One bad day does not a crazy person make. ;)
LivingAlmostLarge | Jan 4, 2007
Some people paid for a wedding 10+ years ago. I am not saying that their wedding were not cheap still, but there is inflation to be added to those numbers. So I don't know if you can't really just compare old wedding costs to new ones.
Well it happens about $10k, parents promise a lot and show little.
What can I say? My MIL said "if you can't pay for the wedding, then you aren't old enough to get married." Sigh, we had bought a home and just "thought" to ask. Sorry for even asking, had I known that was the opinion we would not have asked for a penny, just like the house and cars we own.
Some people just are like that. Our parents are really well off, but they just want us to be completely independent. Well whatever, it's life. Hope it works out.
teraninse | Jan 7, 2007
Good grief. I have to say, I read both the first post and the His response and then this one. I /didn't/ feel like you were being a spoiled brat. *shrug* I think the original post (unless you edited it with the bit to link to the His and Her comments) was pretty clear in saying that you were upset about your mom suggesting you elope and seeming to not care about your wedding at all than about the lack of monetary support. Kudos for all three posts, it couldn't have been easy to post these. As for the nastier posters, well, some people just need to get it out somewhere.
Sassy | Jan 8, 2007
Damn...
Grow up. Your parents don't owe you anything. If you are old enough to get married, you are old enough to pay for it yourself.
Weddings don't have to be elaborate productions. One can spend $25k and still be as legally wed as someone who spends 5k.
Belittling your parents finacial mistakes is rich too, especially when you have made plenty of your own.
It makes me sick when grown adults still expect mommy and daddy to cater to their whims.
Katie | Jan 9, 2007
I read the original post, and both of your responses, and by now maybe you've already had your wedding. You said you're not sure how you can do a wedding for less than $25,000. Our reception in 2001 cost $2,000. We held the reception in the gym of our local church & paid for decorating. We had a professional cake and photographer, several hundred dollars each. We had cake and raspberry creme soda, served on plastic plates with plastic cups for the guests. I rented a dress for about $300 or so.
Sick of Cruel People | Feb 25, 2007
OK, Sassy, you've spread your little bit of bile and nastiness for the day. Feel better? Probably not. Cruelty is a vicious circle, it just breeds more. The girl has explained her position, has apologized from her heart, and you still need to take your pound of flesh. If you were as grown up as you urge this bride to be, you wouldn't be making these cheap shots.
I'm a wedding planner. I see real brats and bridezillas on a regular basis. This isn't even close. This is about promises broken, fear of abandonment, and misunderstanding. All very human, very real, and very forgivable.
My kudos to this bride for being a real "grown up" and making something that could have torn apart a family into an opportunity for growth and greater understanding. That defines the process of becoming a grown up, a lifelong task.
Sammi | Apr 29, 2006
Regarding the church - it's your decision, but keep in mind that God is everywhere, and no matter where you actually hold the ceremony, He'll still know you're married. :-) You can "invite Him" by including an acknowledgement in your vows, or by asking a friend or relative to say a prayer during the ceremony.
I used to think that getting married in our church was non-negotiable for me, but after the reservations debacle (see prev post), I discovered I was a lot more flexible than I had thought!
One alternative is to hold the ceremony somewhere less expensive, and then go to the church to have the minister bless your union after the fact. Doesn't cost anything, and most pastors/fathers are pleased to do it.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
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